From: "Jack Sarfatti" (sarfatti@pacbell.net); Subject:Brain-Mind Hologram, Consciousness, Bio-Physics MRI -Neurons; Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:47 PM
On Friday, October 24, 2003, at 03:06 PM, S-P & M-M Sirag wrote:
> Jack,
>
> You say concerning Penrose's discussion of large-scale quantum effects on
> pp. 351-352 of his book *Shadows of the Mind*.
>
> "Of course, Penrose would know about ODLRO [off diagonal long-range
> order] from Oliver [Penrose]. However I fail to see how he uses it in his
> model of single-graviton callapse of space-time geometry. Do you?"
>
> Actually, Penrose himself abandoned the "single-graviton collapse"
> --
> which was in his book *Emperor's New Mind* (1989).
>
> In *Shadows of the Mind* (1994) on pages 349-350 -- just before the
> discussion quoted in my previous e-mail-- he replaces the single
> graviton
> reduction idea with what he calls OR (for objective reduction). I will quote
> a few key statements:
>
> "According to the viewpoint on state reduction that I have myself been
> promoting in this book (cf. 6.
>>) [The New Criterion] to find the level at
> which the R-process *actually* becomes operative, we must look to the quite
> large scales that become relevant when considerable amount of material
> (microns to millimetres in diameter--or perhaps a good deal more, if no
> significant mass movement is involved) becomes entangled in the quantum
> state. (I shall henceforth denote this fairly specific but putative
> procedure by OR, which stands for objective reduction*."
OK, but there is no use of ODLRO here that I can see? It's just words
"OR" no math to back it up with at least a toy model or even a hint of
one.
The MACRO-QUANTUM ODLRO parameter PSI never "collapses" in the
Von-Neumann sense because of "phase rigidity". That's the key point
here! Yes you can destroy the BEC and the micro-quantum rubble will obey
Von-Neumann rules.
I use PSI(x) for local MACRO-QUANTUM ORDER (ODLRO) PARAMETER, x in
ordinary space-time.
I use psi(x,x', x" ...) for micro-quantum wave function in
configuration space for same set of particles as in above case.
psi obeys usual measurement theory, PSI does not.
>
> In the footnote designated by the asterisk, Penrose says:
>
> "In ENM I use the description of 'correct quantum
> gravity'--abbreviated
> CQG--for this kind of thing. Here the emphasis is a little different. I do
> not wish to stress the connection of this procedure with the profound
> problem of finding a fully coherent theory of quantum gravity. The emphasis
> is more on a procedure that would be in line with the specific suggestions
> put forward in 6.
>> [The New Criterion], but together with some fundamental
> missing non-computational ingredient. The use of the acronym OR has the
> additional point that, in an objective reduction procedure, the physical
> result is indeed one thing *or* the other, in place of the combined
> superposition that had occurred before."
Again this is just interesting hand-waving. No use of the formalism of
ODLRO here or anything resembling P.W. Anderson's "More is different."
>
> [end of quote from Penrose]
>
> Jack, you also say of my proposal for E7 (and ADEX) theory of
> consciousness:
>
> "Yes, fine, but specifically the use of MACRO-QUANTUM ODLRO requires
> LOCAL order parameters PSI (x), x in ordinary space (+ maybe extra
> dimensions)."
>
>In answer I should point out that there are many non-linear equations in
> ADEX theory, such as the sets of Kortweg-DeVries equations.
Fine, but here the Landau-Ginzburg eq is very specific in form
(Wave Operator)PSI + &V(|PSI(x)|)/&|PSI(x) = 0
Where in simplest case
V(|PSI|) = a|PSI|^2 + b|PSI|^4 (Mexican Hat)
&V(|PSI|)/&|PSI| = a + b|PSI|^2
Now if you can used ADEX for topological changes in families of
solutions for PSI(x) changing control parameters a & b (and perhaps
extra hyperspace dimensions), that would be great! I mean beyond the
simple stuff done in all the text books.
> But here I will focus on perhaps the most relevant equation
>(cf. my Mishlove appendix paper
> (1993), "Consciousness: a Hyperspace View," pp. 347-351). The E7 catastrophe
> equation (in the clumsy notation available in email) is:
>
> K = A^3 + AB^3 + C^2
>
> + t(1)B^2 + T(2)B^3 + t(3)B^4 + t(4)AB + t(5)AB^2 + t(6)A^2 +
> t(7) = 0
>
> There are 10 complex variables in this polynomial: A, B, C, t(1), ..., t(7).
> Thus the zero set (i.e., the solution set) is a 9-d complex space,
> i.e., the complex manifold M^9, which is the E7 catastrophe bundle, with the
> catastrophe projection down its base space:
>
> M^9 --
> C^7/W
>
> where C^7 is the E7 reflection space (where the eigenvalued roots and weight
> form polytopes symmetrical under the action of W, the E7 reflection
> (Weyl-Coxeter) group.
>
> The first three terms of the K polynomial form the catastrophe germ,
> whose zero set is the E7 identity fiber F(0). In other words F(0) is K with
> all 7 of the t parameters set to zero. Since the t parameters span the 7-d
> base space C^7/W, which is a 7-d vector space, to set all the t parameters
> to zero, is to pick out the origin point of the base space.
>
> The fiber F(0) attached to this origin is the zero set of the E7 germ,
> A^3 + AB^3 + C^2. Since A, B, and C are complex variables, which can be
> considered the basis elements of C^3. Thus the zero set F(0) is a 2-d
> complex space embedded in C^3. This complex 2-d space is
> --suprise!--
> the gravitational instanton structure C^2/OD (cf. Kronheimer 1989, 1990). And
> the "infinity" of this space is SU(2)/OD.
> So, in this rather esoteric way, we have a function on space (and time).
> Actually, time plays three closely related roles here. First of all, the
> parameter t(7) is the (complex) time parameter. Moreover, as paths within
> the base space C^7/W are chosen (beginning at the origin), the fiber
> F(0) is unfolded and time "evolves" along the path. In addition to this
> picture, one can regard the separatrix (which separates topologically different
> unfoldings of F(0)) in C^/W) as itself a wave front structure. The
> idea is that the full separatrix (which is the mapping of the 63 E7 mirrors
> onto E7 separatrix via the action of W on C^7) can be regarded as a "big wave"
> sliced into "wavefronts" as time evolves along some path in the base space
> C^7/W. (Cf. V.I. Arnold, *Castrophe Theory* pp. 29-31), and this is
> consistent with regarding t(7) as a time parameter. In other words, all the
> parameters constitute a generalization (and complexification) of the usual
> time parameter.
>
> The third aspect of time is the time implicit in the 4-d instanton space
> C^2/OD. Actually, since C^/OD contains a very severe singularity (in the
> Arnold sense of singularity theory) at its origin. This can be
> desingularized by lifting up into the higher dimensional space afforded by
> the E7 Lie algebra. When fully desingularized it is a gravitational
> instanton (of the ALE type, cf. Ward and Wells, *Twistor Geometry and Field
> Field Theory*, 1990).
>
> I believe that to fully synchronize the Euclideanized time parameter in
> the gravitation instanton structure with t(7) in C^2/W, and the time
> evolution in the paths in this E7 catastrophe base space, it will be
> necessary to bring in ideas from superstring theory.
>
> Nuff said :-)
>
> Saul-Paul
OK, fine but the problem here now is how to handle the very specific
equation I give above
which is what the physics calls for. If ADEX can give qualitative
topological catastrophe
insights into :
(Wave Operator)PSI + &V(|PSI(x)|)/&|PSI(x) = 0
Where in simplest case
V(|PSI|) = a|PSI|^2 + b|PSI|^4 (Mexican Hat)
&V(|PSI|)/&|PSI| = a + b|PSI|^2
Then we have something very close to all sorts of experiments.
Example 1.
In my cosmology theory
PSI = Linde's INFLATION FIELD
PSI = Higgs e^iGoldstone
Locally gauging translation group makes ripples in Goldstone phase that
is Einstein's gravity.
Locally gauging the "mirrored translation group" + the dilation group
in the Conformal Group SU(2,2)
give the unified dark energy/matter exotic vacuum field that is 96% of
the large-scale stuff of the Universe.
The dark matter exotic vacuum phase ALSO explains
1. Stability of electron extended spatial structure at e^/mc^2 ~ 1 fermi
2. Why extended electron looks like a point particle in deep probe
scattering.
3. Why Regge trajectories (basic data of string theory)
4. Blackett effect!
The MACRO-QUANTUM VACUUM PSI above is from micro-quantum dynamical
instability in Dirac vacuum due to non-perturbative BCS pairing of
virtual electron-positron pairs inside the 2mc^2 gap.
Locally gauging O(1,3) gives Shipov's torsion field.
Example 2 Generation of inner consciousness in the brain (toy model
for Psychotronic Technology)
PSI(x) = BIT mind field in the brain with IT as Frohlich electric
dipole distribution ed(x)rho(x) for the hydrophobic caged electron
switches Hameroff talks about.
BIT and IT in two-way relation generates inner consciousness in the
PSI(x) field that is in parallel with ed(x)rho(x).
rho(x) is density of dipoles.
-------------------------------
I do not understand how the "gravity instanton" connects to observable
physics? I am not saying it does not only that I do not
understand how. Is it important for Hawking's Euclidean sphere
tunneling into Lorentzian space-time? I don't know how
that math works in detail.
>
> ----------
>> From: Jack Sarfatti (sarfatti@pacbell.net)
>> To: "S-P & M-M Sirag "
>> Subject: Re: Consciousness & Conformal Group & Reality Problem via
>> ADEX theory
>> Date: Fri, Oct 24, 2003, 11:11 AM
>>
>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 23, 2003, at 08:57 AM, S-P & M-M Sirag wrote:
>>
>>> Jack,
>>>
>>> you say:
>>>
>>> "I have never seen Penrose write about MACRO-QUANTUM things like
>>> superfluids and how that might impact his consciousness Model. Ditto for
>>> Stapp. Their error is to think micro-quantum with 'collapse' Von Neumann
>>> measurement theory. They have pushed that theory beyond its proper
>>> domain of validity."
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a copy of *Shadows of the Mind* by Roger Penrose (1994)?
>>> Chapter 7 is titled, "Quantum theory and the brain." Section 7.1 is called
>>> "Large-scale quantum action in brain function?"
>>
>> Yes, but I am in Austin right now till Sunday.
>>>
>>> On pp 351-352 Penrose discusses in particular quantum coherence and uses
>>> the example of superconductivity. Then he discuses Herbert Frohlich's idea
>>> of "collective quantum effects in biological systems" which he proposed in
>>> 1968 relying on "a concept due to my brother Oliver Penrose and Lars
>>> Onsanger (1956)--as I learnt to my surprise when looking into these
>>> matters), that there should be vibrational effects within active cells,
>>> which would resonate with microwave electromagnetic radiation, at 10^11 Hz,
>>> as a a result of a biological quantum coherence phenomenon. Instead of
>>> needing a low temperature, the effects arise from the existence of a large
>>> energy of metabolic drive. There is now some respectable observational
>>> evidence, in many biological systems, for precisely this kind of
>>> effect that Frolich had predicted in 1968."
>>
>> Yes, thanks Saul-Paul. It's been years since I looked at it. Of course,
>> Penrose would know about
>> ODLRO from Oliver. However I fail to see how he uses it in his model of
>> single-graviton collapse of space-time geometry. Do you?
>>>
>>>
>>> I should also point out that my proposal of a nervous system providing a
>>> concatination of "blips" of infinitesimal awareness, what I mean by this
>>> concatination is a collective quantum phenomenon. As I write in the
>>> "Discussion" section of my paper "A Mathematical Strategy for a Theory of
>>> Consciousness," pp580-588 of *Toward a Science of Consciousness: The First
>>> Tucson Discussions and Debates*, edited by S.R. Hameroff, A.W. Kaszniak &
>>> A.C. Scott (MIT Press, 1996):
>>>
>>> "The relationships tied together by this [E7] graph are suggestive of a
>>> universal consciousness. Since eigenvalues are the primitive observables,
>>> they must correspond to fundamental qualia (or sensations). The reflection
>>> group W acts on the E7 reflection space and thus on the eigenvalue
>>> crystallographic polytopes--changing one vertex into another. Each such
>>> change corresponds to a quantum jump. Thus the fundamental processes of
>>> consciousness are the reflections. Each such reflection (jump) is presumably
>>> accompanied by a minute 'blip' of awareness. The geometry afforded by the
>>> many structures described by the E7 graph suggests that these blips of
>>> awareness would be available at every point of space-time. This implies that
>>> a nervous system is a means of experiencing many myriads of these blips in a
>>> coherent fashion in each moment of time. This view of the function of a
>>> nervous system is similar to the detailed model developed by James
>>> Culbertson (Culbertson 1963, Herbert 1993).
>>>
>>> "The coherence of the experience of consciousness (for sentient beings)
>>> may be due to some macroscopic quantum system in the body of the experiencer
>>> (Walker 1970, Penrose 1989, Herbert 1993, Goswami 1993).
>>>
>>> "The E7 graph can be used to generate the Hamming-7
>>> error-correcting code.
>>> This suggests that cognitive aspects of consciousness may be related
>>> to coding theory, which has deep connections to invariant theory and
>>> analog-to-digital transforms. The Hamming-7 code is a subcode of the
>>> Hamming-8 code which is generated by the E8 graph (Conway & Sloane,1988).
>>> It is properties of this code that provide for anomaly cancellations in the
>>> E8 x E8 superstring theory."
>>>
>>>
>>> [end of quote from my 1996 paper]
>>
>> Yes, fine, but specifically the use of MACRO-QUANTUM ODLRO requires
>> LOCAL order parameter PSI(x) , x in ordinary space (+ maybe extra
>> dimensions).
>>
>> So I do not understand how to flesh out the admittedly beautiful math
>> above using PSI(x) with robust phase coherence that does not obey the
>> projection postulate of Von Neumann's "eigenvalue" measurement theory.
>> We are in a new emergent domain. PSI(x) obeys a nonlinear non-unitary
>> eq not the Schrodinger eq. One must make toy models using PSI(x).
>> Frohlich of course does have a PSI(x). All I see Penrose doing above is
>> vague hand waving with no connect to what he actually proposed in OR?
>>>
>>>
>>> All for now.
>>>
>>> Saul-Paul
>>
>> On a new tack!
>>
>> Locally gauge ALL groups INSIDE space-time base space
>> (U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3)
>> are in the extra-dimensions already locally gauged).
>>
>> Start with Penrose MASSLESS Twistor Conformal Group
>>
>> SU(2,2) ~ D(1)xMT(4)xT(4)xO(1,3)
>>
>> PT(4) is the MIRRORED translation subgroup that Thomas Angelides
>> mentioned.
>>
>> I think it is Brian Greene's "Shadow Universe" of "Two geometries one
>> physics"????
>>
>> Utiyama in 60's locally gauged both T(4) and O(1,3)
>>
>> The result is:
>>
>> Locally gauge T(4) generated by Pu to get Einstein gravity as
>> curvature.
>>
>> Locally gauge O(1,3) generated by Muv space-time rotations to get
>> TORSION fields (e.g. Shipov).
>>
>>
>> Now my T(4) operates in the space of the Goldstone phase of complex
>> PSI(x).
>>
>> That gives me Einstein's gravity.
>>
>> I need a SECOND T(4) in the space of the Higgs Field to get exotic
>> vacuum unified Dark Energy/Matter with w = -1.
>>
>> This is what gives me rest mass of electron formula
>>
>> m ~ (e/c)^2/zpf*^1/2 ~ 0.5 Mev
>>
>> using world hologram Lp* = Lp^2/3(c/H)^1/3
>>
>> /zpf* = Lp*^-2
>>
>> in the exotic vacuum dark matter core holding he electric charge
>> together and compensating the centrifugal barrier and obeying BLACKETT
>> RELATION!
>>
>> Higgs field makes lepto-quark rest masses even in standard model.
>>
>> Penrose needs to "break" SU(2,2) down to Poincare group T(4)xO(1,3) to
>> get rest mass!
>>
>> So the picture is consistent.
>>
>> D(1) is for INFLATION. i.e.
>>
>> INFLATION FIELD = (Higgs Field) e^i(Goldstone Field)
>>
>> from NON-PERTURBATIVE dynamical BCS pairing instability in Dirac
>> electron micro-quantum vacuum.
>>
>> Local gauging T(4) makes ripples in Goldstone Field to give Einstein's
>> gravity.
>>
>> Locally gauging shadow MT(4) makes ripples in Higgs field to give
>> exotic vacuum dark energy/matter w = -1 fields which generate the "mass
>> without mass" of the lepto-quarks.
>>
>> Locally gauging D(1) dilations is the expansion in the "INFLATION".
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>> From: Jack Sarfatti >
>>>> Subject: Consciousness & Conformal Group & Reality Problem via ADEX theory
>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 23, 2003, 6:26 AM
>>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 08:21 AM, DR. Ratan Singh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What do you folks think of Sir Roger Penrose stand that there are three
>>>>> worlds: The material, the mental and the Plato's World of Ideas?
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Penrose on that one. So does Max Tegmark. See his
>>>> "Level IV" in May 2003 Scientific American.
>>>>
>>>> "Material" = IT
>>>>
>>>> "Mental" = BIT
>>>>
>>>> Plato's World of Ideas ~ ADEX (V.I. Arnold) according to Saul-Paul Sirag.
>>>>
>>>>> He even suggests that there will be new science in future and that will be
>>>>> science but not algorithmic such that it will be out of bound for computers.
>>>>> He also coins the term "Quantum Psychology".
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen Penrose write about MACRO-QUANTUM things like
>>>> superfluids and how that might
>>>> impact his consciousness model. Ditto for Stapp. Their error is to
>>>> think micro-quantum with
>>>> "collapse" Von Neumann measurement theory. They have pushed that
>>>> theory beyond its proper domain of validity.
>>>>
>>>> The micro-linear nonlocal Schrodinger-Dirac equations with unitary time
>>>> evolution must be replaced by "More is different" MACRO-NONLINEAR LOCAL
>>>> Landau-Ginzburg equations with NON-UNITARY time evolution in the ground
>>>> state phase transition from micro --
> MACRO that happens EVERY TIME
>>>> there is a
>>>> qualitative emergence of new complex orders from micro-quantum level to
>>>> MACRO-QUANTUM LEVEL.
>>>>
>>>> In the general case this is the "topology change" of ADEX theory in
>>>> Saul-Paul Sirag's sense I think he would suspect.
>>>>
>>>> The whole idea of "Quantum Mind" is a conceptual muddle because they
>>>> mean "micro-quantum".
>>>>
>>>> They have asked the wrong question!
>>>>
>>>> "The Question is: What is The Question?" Wheeler
>>>>
>>>> http://qedecorp.com/APS/StarGate1.mov
